Fred Astaire

Honestly, he seemed deeply closeted. He was lifelong best friends with relatively openly gay Hermes Pan, and his wives seemed more like business partners than anything else.

R3- Yes, he was Asexual just like Richard Simmons.

Not sure. To me, he pinged. Super elegant dancer.

I vote asexual. He was beautiful and elegant. He devoted himself to his craft. Probably sought comfort and companionship with women and men. Not the kind of man who can be easily 'classified.'

He was a close friend of Noel Coward, going back to their 20s, when Fred and his sister Adele took some of their Broadway hits to the West End in the 1920 - I have a bio with glamorous and eccentric photos of them at the Savoy partying on the roof etc.

His wrote a letter to his overbearing mother who didn't want him to marry some woman, and he said to Adele, "Does she want me to just play around with tarts all my life?"

Still could be closeted though. His sister's nickname for him was "Moanin' Minnie" and she said she was shocked when he was able to project a bit of sex appeal for the first time with an actress named Tilly Losch. Forgot the play - might have been The Bandwagon which was one of their later ones (his last was The Gay Divorce with Clare Luce - the name was changed to The Gay Divorcee when he filmed it with Ginger because that was less scandelous).

Well, sorry, I'm a stan. It was Noel who suggested the title of his autobio: "Steps in Time" so they stayed in touch. And he and David Niven got high or something one day in Beverly Hills and drove around painting everyone's mailboxes gaudy colors... Oh and his tv costar Barrie Chase dated him before the female jockey and she said he counted out how many peanuts she could eat before dinner - and he bitched about Leslie Caron eating too much while they filmed.....

How is asexual not just closeted?

Sorry for all the typos. But one more snippet: his "dancing weight" was 135 (he claimed he was 5'9"). He ate only chicken soup on show days - and had the same black valet for years. Weird time. Like Wooster and Jeeves......

Do you just say "I think he was asexual" without offering reasons? Do asexual people have children, because I've seen several interviews with his daughter, Ava. His grandson resembles him.

Well, Vincent Price and Dom Deluise had wives and children. So did Oscar Wilde.

R11 So they were also asexual?

R8 and others regarding 'asexual'. The condition exists. I know because I am and have friends who are. It's a strange but 'peaceful' condition. I can only describe my own: I admire the physical beauty of males and females but have no interest in the sexual act. It's not repulsive to me; it simply doesn't exist. I find the male body more beautiful than the female but that has nothing to do with sex, only gender. I hope that helps explain.

Interesting r13 thanks for sharing. Did you ever have crushes as a kid?

I cannot stand this asexuality shit. It’s now thrown onto to every obvious closet case that’s discussed - Tammy Cruise, Keanu, and finally Astaire. If a man seems asexual”, he’s taking regular cock up the ass, you tumblr teenagers.

Genuine asexuality is extremely rare and almost always a result of severe sexual trauma.

R13 you’re probably not asexual. You’re likely a self hating gay man who can’t work up the courage to fuck another man. You sound like you’re attracted to men, but the societal homophobia has seeped into your mind to find sex with a man repulsive. This was a common experience for gays and lesbians of the past because gay sex was beyond taboo. It’s still considered “disgusting” by general society.

sexual behavior is valid r16. You can be asexual just because you don't want to have sex with either gender

If he was gay he would never have been able to be open about it at the time. Also, he was world famous and would have been easy prey for blackmailers.

Was he? Yes, he was a genius.

"Asexual" is the last refuge of the homophobe.

Just because he wasn't a pussy hound doesn't mean he was gay or asexual. Maybe he was just one of those guys who prefer their wives and keep a very low sexual profile.

Michael Redgrave was another one - wife, several children, but they just accepted the "other" side of him. Same for Laurence Olivier. It was a thing back then. Probably a whole slew - Danny Kaye, Rock Hudson 'tried' lol - Cary Grant took LSD so he could force himself to have sex with women - well maybe just Dyan Cannon - but they did produce a daughter.

Just close your eyes and think of England - many many women did the same. Do your duty, keep up appearances, don't scare the horses, yada yada.

Time was when “gay” meant actually being attracted to or fucking men.

What about Fred Astaire says gay to you all?

I will say he was brilliant , amazingly talented and entertaining to watch

My God, why are people so threatened by how someone chooses to identify himself or herself. Your experience is not universal, and just because you can't imagine how it feels to be asexual does not mean it does not exist.

It’s a good thing that he could dance so well. Because that was his redeeming ability. He was uglier than a dogs butt.

One of the least sexy classic movie stars.

Remember when "GAY" used to be a happy word!!

He was effete to the point of prissiness, recoiling from things he found too coarse or gaudy. He was a dandy, always put together perfectly, neckties used as belts on his tailored trousers. Although enormously talented and charming, he had the sex appeal of a tea cozy. His primary relationship outside of Estelle was Hermes Pan, and other celebrities might be heard speaking of them as a matched set, as in, "Oh, Fred and Hermes couldn't make it, but they're coming to the summer house next month."

Yeah, sounds like a massive pussyhound.

There was a rumor back in the day that Randolph soothed his pain regarding his break-up with Cary Grant by having a fling with Fred Astair.

His primary relationship outside of Estelle was Hermes Pan

Who's Estelle? His wife's name was Phyllis. Maybe you mean his sister, Adele? His wife was his primary relationship. His second wife was a jockey. Fred was interested in horse racing and visited the Whitneys in Saratoga often.

[quote]His primary relationship outside of Estelle was Hermes Pan

^That should have been in quotes

Supposedly had an affair with Jessie Matthews.

Someone should tell DaBrat that there is a white man who looks like Jiminy Cricket too….

Fred never kissed Ginger in a movie, per order of his wife.

His face could stop a clock - look at it sometime - instead of watching his feet.

Ginger Rogers did everything he did, backward and in high heels.

That quote doesn't hold as well after Prince came along

He did kiss Ginger in one film and they filmed it in slow motion.

R42, Cunnilingus doesn’t count.

Yes. That was a homosexual.

Fred kissed Ginger in The Barkleys Of Broadway and also in Carefree. They also dated before they were in movies and both were on Broadway in different shows.

Yeah, Fred’s wife knew Ginger was a hussy and they’d already kissed in real life.

Puerto Rican, and trans? Yes.

The skinny gay kid on The Connors was born to play him.

R48, I've read various reports both Tom Holland and Jaime Bell will play Astaire in upcoming films. Supposedly Margaret Qualley has been cast opposite Holland as Ginger. Jesus,

Well I'm sure Tom Holland can dance every bit as well as Fred Astaire. :/

I think Freddie boy was as charmer and probably in a lavender marriage. He seemed rather insufferable to his dance partners but not as bad as Gene Kelly.

What? No Derek Hough?? At least get somebody who can dance incredibly well.

Tom Holland danced in BILLY ELLIOT in London--that takes skill.

Ask because he had gay friends and was an elegant dancer he’s gay? Come on fellas, you can do better than that. Anyone who was a staple at MGM and danced for a living would be surrounded by gay men.

There are absolutely no rumors or innuendos about his sexuality as there are about contemporaries like Grant, Power, Kaye, and others.

He was not insufferable, he was a perfectionist who worked harder than anyone and made his dance partners look better than they were.

Astaire had a pretty unique dancing style, in the sense that he was so light, as if dancing on air. MARY! I know, but it's true. There was almost a delicacy to the way he moved, as opposed to Kelly who had a much more 'masculine' style, and you felt the physicality. I think that might also inform people's perceptions of his sexuality.

His elegance in his dancing and personal style made him attractive, even if he wasn't classically handsome.

[quote]What? No Derek Hough?? At least get somebody who can dance incredibly well.

Did Fred have yellow skin?

[quote]His elegance in his dancing and personal style made him attractive, even if he wasn't classically handsome.

He wasn't handsome at all.

Was Fred Astaire the inspiration for Mr. Peanut?

R58 Only in Ziegfeld Follies.

He was the weakest link in the first film version of ON THE BEACH. I don’t even know why he got an Oscar nomination for THE TOWERING INFERNO.

It's been a long time since I saw On The Beach but didn't he get good reviews for that?

What's his best performance?

I think it's time to bring back this little ditty...

[quote]Honestly, he seemed deeply closeted.

He really didn't seem that way to me. It's Gene Kelly who always struck me as closeted.

[quote]There was almost a delicacy to the way he moved, as opposed to Kelly who had a much more 'masculine' style, and you felt the physicality.

I always felt Kelly tried a bit too hard.

R54, that's he DL for you, where everyone assumes that all male dancers are gay.

Even 50 percent of ballet dancers are straight.

R66 A long time ago, when I was a closeted gayling, Kelly said on a talk show that his dancing was manly and not "that limp-wristed stuff," which seems to me like a swipe at Astaire. I also think it said something about Kelly that he thought being a male dancer meant a man was a sissy, so he had to defend himself. I don't recall ever hearing any other male dancer saying something like that. I heard Kelly defend himself that way more than once, so it does seem that he was quite self-conscious about himself.

Gene Kelly was bi and enjoyed young men. YOUNG.

Fred was very good in this television movie and Helen Hayes was even better.

To be diplomatic when asked who his best partner was, Fred would answer “Gene Kelly” rather than one of the ladies with whom he danced.

[quote]I always felt Kelly tried a bit too hard.

He always struck me as very pleased with himself. Maybe it was that cheesy broad grin he always flashed for the camera.

[quote]If he was gay he would never have been able to be open about it at the time.

Golly gee, thanks Frau Wizard! What would we gays do without you to explain our history to us?!

Was he…a fan of The Guiding Light? Why, yes. He was!

Well, darling, I really wouldn't know. He's never sucked my cock.

Kelly grew up in a working class neighborhood in Pittsburgh. He and his brother Fred were both constantly harassed by their peers for being dancers. He got into more fights for this. I understand why he would be so defensive. Not an excuse but an explanation.

That being said, he was alleged to be a real pain in the ass to work with. He once told Tommy Tune that he should change his stage name because it sounded ‘too theatrical’ to Kelly. He was a liberal and it showed. In one of his movies, he does an amazing dance sequence with the Nicholas Brothers, despite the disapproval of the movie studio. In that regard he was very open minded.

But the homophobia? He was exhausting. Maybe his experiences growing up were traumatic for him, but he was relentless…

I'm watching "Dancing Lady" on TCM. He even danced with Joan Crawford! Never would have thought...

A good recent book is Hollywood, An Oral History (no jokes, please...). There's a section on Gene Kelly and nobody said much about him that was bad. Someone described him as "brusque" but that it was just his way, he "didn't really mean it." Fred was described as a gentleman but one person said even he could lose his temper at times and at one time told Minnelli to come down off the boom or he was going to come up and drag him down. And Minnelli was his favorite director.

I watched this Kelly doc a month or so ago, it has the participation (or was produced by?) his kids. He does come off well in their eyes and not all Hollywood stars had good relationships with their kids. He obviously did.

Multiple Astaire films on TCM today, followed by all of the "Thin Man" movies.

R79, Bet it doesn’t include that while on his deathbed in the hospital, Gene’s wife was visiting him accompanied by her boyfriend.

Sure Gene was into himself but then he was also very sexy and very talented.

Gene had talent. REAL talent!

The one I really didn't like Fred Astaire in is "Funny Face". He has some okay acting moments, but I would've much preferred Gene Kelly in that role. And Kay Thompson (who apprently did NOT get along w/Astaire) just makes the movie for me.

The age difference between Astaire and Audrey Hepburn is pretty creepy in "Funny Face."

It was better between him and Petula in "Finian's Rainbow." But of course he was playing her FATHER in that one.

R81 No but they say a few things about her that aren't at all positive.

R85 Stanley Donen directed it, he was not going to direct Gene Kelly at that point.

Fred was a lot older than Audrey Hepburn but there is no way he could ever seem "creepy". Besides, he was energetic and stylish and was sort of ageless in that he looked the same for years. 1957 was the last time he appeared as a romantic leading man in a musical (the other musical he made that year was Silk Stockings).

I didn't say that Fred seemed creepy, R90. I said the age difference seemed creepy. Did it occur to you that maybe there was a reason it was one of his final appearances as a romantic leading man?

I just handwave away the romances with Audrey and Leslie Caron because he is so charming.

I bet his favorite partner was Cyd.

Some others he praised in his autobiography were Eleanor Powell (no namby pamby tapping from this gal - she laid those taps down forcefully, like a man) and Vera Ellen (he especially loved how skinny she was - one of his obsessions for himself and everybody else)

Vera-Ellen was scary-skinny long before scary-skinny became a thing.

Vera-Ellen had a serious eating disorder that caused her neck to age while she was still young. She had to wear high necklines. turtle necks and scarves to hide it.

R91 Dancing musicals went out of style around that time. Gene Kelly also made his last Hollywood dance musical where he played the lead (Les Girls) in 1957, and he was only 45-46. Fred did want to retire from dance films around that time, if it was because creepiness I guess we'll never know.

I am not so sure being asexual is just some closeted, self-loathing condition. Some saints throughout the ages were called to celibacy. Sexuality is too complex to neatly pigeonhole and diagnose.

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