The "You Will Be Found (With a Harpo Marx Wig)" Edition

Dear Evan Hansen trailer has dropped. Have at it.

Why wasn’t I considered for one of his classmates? We are practically the same age.

Is the character a worrier, r1?

What era is this move supposedly taking place in? It might have worked better if they had done it in South Park animation style instead.

DEH Trailer thread here. Everyone seems to ADORE it!

Julianne Moore is playing his mom. I love JM (seriously), but even she is a bit long in the tooth for her role (60). So there you are.

Is her song in the final cut? That Act 2 song was one of the best in the show, IMHO. Very touching, especially in context.

Was Evan a late in life mistake child? Is that why he feels so inadequate?

When Broadway reopens, what will they do about dimming the lights for all the people who died? Will they do one dimming for everyone or will they do a bunch of individual dimmings?

If Amanda Kloots has her way, they will dim the entire city for her, I mean for Nick.

Who is the dimmest light on Broadway?

Besides me, I mean.

LOL!!!! It looks like it will be hilarious, like Riding the Bus with my Sister!!!! He's waaay too old to be playing a teen convincingly on film.

Don’t you dare look at me, bitch.

Platt is one of the worst actors I've seen in a while. I could not believe how terrible he was when I saw the show. I'd gotten a house seat and I was front and center in the 2nd row and I swear, I pulled a Merman at Applause right after his first scene.

And the Stockard Channing Oscar, sponsored by Marc E. Platt, for Too Old to be Playing My Character goes to....Ben Platt!

Well, Marc is making the time-lapse version of MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG, so we have that to look forward to as well.

Of course, many of us here will be dead by the time it finally wraps.

R17 Thanks that’s a very consoling thought. (Not even being facetious here.)

[quote]I love JM (seriously), but even she is a bit long in the tooth for her role (60). So there you are.

Then again, Platt looks like he's 40 so it all works out.

I thought that was an over-produced Randy Rainbow parody!

Oh, no, no, no. The play is about a deeply anxious, troubled and awkward kid doing some pretty fucked up shit, so it just makes Evan Hansen look like a psychopath if it's an undeniably grownass man with forehead lines doing all of it.

R21 I have only seen the handbag of DEH, and it seemed he had something named, he was so full of tics and twitches and mentalness I find it stupid they are trying to say he is just nervous.

did they try to do some of that [italic]Irishman[/italic] digital work on Ben? Youth-enizing?

[quote]I love JM (seriously), but even she is a bit long in the tooth for her role (60). So there you are.

I don't see the problem.

I'd pay good money to see a Martin Scorsese version of DEH, preferably where Conner's family has that whiny brat rubbed out in a hail of bullets at the end.

Yes, the trailer heavily CGIs Ben's face right into uncanny valley territory.

[quote]it seemed he had something named, he was so full of tics and twitches and mentalness I find it stupid they are trying to say he is just nervous.

R22 You're right but IIRC this is something people criticized the original play for: it gives the character obvious developmentally disordered and anxious behavior, but never names a diagnosis, so he just ends up looking like an antisocial asshole.

They should really have had the psychopathic kid from Woman in the Window play him, he already works well with Amy and Julianne.

There’s a “Black Lives Matters” poster in the trailer. If they were that concerned, they could have cast a black Evan or a black Connor.

No wonder Charles Grodin died. He saw one of his old wigs on Platt.

I saw the show on the Broadway with Platt and then with the actually 17 Feldman. It makes way more sense - although still not a lot - with an actual teenager rather than a ham-fisted putz pretending to be one.

Isn't DEH's plot stolen somewhat from that Robin Williams' film "World's Greatest Dad"?

Look, you bitches. IF *I* can play a believable high school student, anyone can!

Remember Johnny Depp on his last season of 21 Jump Street and he still looked younger than Ben Platt does in this?

I saw DEH with Michael Lee Brown - the alternate who also understudied Connor and the other male teen role. I ended up enjoying the show - despite its flaws - and found him to be a somewhat sympathetic Evan. I was anticipating hating it, but think that had more to do with my aversion to Platt.

Thanks for my new name R30. I feel seen.

They try very hard to hide that DEH is actually a musical.

Funny r37 I was thinking the opposite- Trailers for musicals almost never show actual onscreen singing, and this one does.

There used to be a shapeshifter character on Star Trek: DS9 that had really formless putty-like facial features because he was a member of an alien race that could never quite congeal into a person so it could never quite shift its features into a fully realistic humanoid face.

Anyway don't know why I'm bringing that up just now.

Age-appropriate casting is such a bore.

That’s my boy! Money well spent.

I’m not even sure Lucy’s “Mame” filter could make Ben look like a teenager.

R39/R40 It looks like someone sprayed Michael Myer's mask in an almost flesh tone.

R41 Odo....My brown Boston is named after him

Is this a remake of Strangers with Candy?

R49 You would say that, helping Ben to hide his real age.

There's one central plot hole I could never get past with this story. Why does the kid who commits suicide get so pissed off when he finds the letter Evan wrote to himself? I have never seen the show, but assuming that is what pushes the kid over the edge, it seems like a pretty big thing not to fully explain.

If they are trying to say it doesn't matter "why," they sure take advantage of the storytelling liberties that come with that. It's all just so confusing. The film mentioned upthread, World's Greatest Dad, is very similar but every character's actions and intentions are crystal clear. They should have just adapted that movie for Broadway.

R39 the problem with the CGI-ing of his facial lines is that he still has the face of someone in his late twenties, which makes him look even weirder. High schoolers are fresh-faced and don't lose that dewiness until age 23 or so. Think of Justin Bieber and how he looked at age 17 vs. age 27. As a teenager his face was rounder/softer and now in his late twenties his face looks more elongated/hardened.

But..THE HAIR??? What is the hair about? Was that a choice for a reason? He looks like Babs in The Main Event.

The secondhand embarrassment is strong and I haven't even clicked play

The film will draw teens and Gen-Zers anyway, no matter who is playing Evan. How much more appropriate and believable Andrew Barth Feldman would be.

[quote]Why does the kid who commits suicide get so pissed off when he finds the letter Evan wrote to himself? I have never seen the show, but assuming that is what pushes the kid over the edge....

Connor gets pissed off because (a) Evan mentions Connor's sister, Zoe, in the letter and because (b) he thinks that Evan intended him to see the letter.

CONNOR: You saw that I was the only other person in the computer lab, so you wrote this and you printed it out so that I would find it.

EVAN: Why would I do that?

CONNOR: So I would read some creepy shit you wrote about my sister, and freak out, right? And then you can tell everyone that I'm crazy, right?

Yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also, the letter doesn't have anything to do with Connor's suicide, which is never really explained.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1961, "Donnybrook!" opened at the 46th Street Theatre.

If Ben Platt were to win the Oscar for this, he would EGOT for a single role.

I think you're all being unfairly harsh on Ben.

Fuck Ben Platt and fuck his rich daddy.

Holy shit, the CGI makes Platt look like Rocky Dennis.

Years from now, we're all going to remember May 18, 2021 -- the day the internet laughed itself silly over the Dear Evan Hansen trailer.

Ben Platt is scarier than any CGI cat person.

In the stage version of DEAR EVAN HANSEN, the character of Connor -- the boy who kills himself -- was presented as a sullen, anti-social Goth. From what little we see of him in the trailer for the movie, he looks like a much more normal kid, played by the beautiful, baby-faced Colton Ryan. I wonder if that's going to make his suicide seem even more like it comes out of left field.

Also, for me the big flaw in the show (and now the movie) is that NO ONE ever addresses a letter to a friend with by using their full first and last names, so that should have tipped everyone off that the letter was not written by Connor.

Also -- this trailer is too long and gives away too much of the plot, which is why I didn't hesitate to put some "spoilers" in what I wrote above, because the trailer covers all of that.

Didn't hot Riff in new film WSS play the Connor role on Broadway?

[quote] With a Harpo Marx Wig

Oh, dear. That is bad.

With theaters opening up, who would have thought that Bonnie &Clyde would be a popular musical right now. I have seen several new productions of the Frank Wildhorn musical being announced. Ten years ago, the Wildhorn musical barely lasted a month on Broadway, but now it seems to be a topical subject.

I’m a top...-ical subject! Just ask my dad.

"DEH is actually a musical."

Sez you.

[quote] Ben Platt is scarier than any CGI cat person.

Speaking of that, I was wondering if they might tweak the digital mess the way [italic]Cats[/italic] did between the social outcry and the actual release.

The cats definitely had better hair then Evan Hansen.

Great, R74. Is the B side, "Sea Shell" available?

The ultimate insult would be sticking Platt back into the Broadway musical for a limited engagement to promote the film. Maybe the show won't ever re-open, so there's that.

Wonderful! Thank you, R77.

DEAR EVAN HANSEN is a money machine. No matter what happens with the film, the show will run.

Very popular with younger audiences, with lots of "repeaters" who've seen it numerous times (especially every time there's a new Evan).

Robert Morse will be the next Evan.

R79 Is it like trading cards, collect the Playbill with every Evan? Yet, no gum, sad.

Aaron Tveit IS Evan Hansen!

I was once told by a chorus boy that Susan Johnson was such a nympho that she had to be serviced between Acts One and Two.

Or maybe he was just projecting.

Do you think Aaron Tveit has a buthole?

[quote]Maybe the show won't ever re-open, so there's that.

DEH has already announced a December 11 reopening on Broadway. No word on casting yet.

r85 who in the cast had a big D?

[quote]Do you think Aaron Tveit has a buthole?

I always assumed he had a few of them.

[quote] I was once told by a chorus boy that Susan Johnson was such a nympho that she had to be serviced between Acts One and Two.

Hold my Harvey Wallbanger.

More about Lewis Cleale's massive cock?

[qupte]Years from now, we're all going to remember May 18, 2021 -- the day the internet laughed itself silly over the Dear Evan Hansen trailer.

Years from now, when you talk about this -- and you will -- be kind.

Hardly worth qupting r92.

Here, feel my tits -- you're really straight, ya poor kid.

R92 Do not give Ben any ideas!!! I do not need to see him as a boarding school teen in a heartfelt musical version of Tea and Sympathy.

Tea and Sympathy. The musical. Starring Ben and Patti.

I AM SALIVATING, HELP ME!

Hope this hasn't been posted yet...

Trailer for RESPECT featuring Audra!

[quote]The biopic features the six-time Tony winner as mother to the Queen of Soul (played by Jennifer Hudson).

I smell OSCARS!

Does this mean DEH is destined to be a hit?

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1930, "Let" and "Sub-Let" opened at the Biltmore Theatre (now the Samuel J. Friedman Theatre).

Real cats watch the musical CATS (yes, seriously) in honor of the show's 40th anniversary:

R102 Do we need to call the ASPCA on their behalf?

R100 What he misses out is that most of that response was mocking. If social media jokes equalled box office, Cats would've resulted in the Andrew Lloyd Webber cinematic universe becoming a thing.

R100 And that's the Theater Mania social media channels which is a microscopic subset of the public at large.

Mike Fiest and his armpits.

[quote]I smell OSCARS!

No -- that's just Ree's bucket of chicken.

Nat Geo and Cynthia Erivo have already proven no one gives a shit about an Aretha Franklin biopic. And people actually think Erivo is talented. Hudson has been in bomb after bomb after bomb since Dreamgirls. The only hit she's had was the first Sex & The City movie, which doesn't count. She's been given umpteen chances and failed. And people recognize what a joke her performance and Oscar were.

[quote] I wonder if that's going to make his suicide seem even more like it comes out of left field.

Aren't they making him a suicidal gay?

r108 it looks like this tells the same story in 1/8th the time and with better costumes. I'm in. And I want a JHud vs Erivo smackDOWN

"Very popular with younger audiences, with lots of "repeaters" who've seen it numerous times (especially every time there's a new Evan)."

Both terribly sad and frightening at the same time.

You will be found…to be losers

[quote]And that's the Theater Mania social media channels which is a microscopic subset of the public at large.

Ha, exactly. A once well-respected theater website, now a complete joke like so many of the others.

ATC reported that Ben Platt tweeted out that folks were "jerks" criticizing his age on the web, and then quickly deleted the tweet. Did he run to Daddy before or after?

Daddy gave Ben a spanking after he tweeted that.

[quote]“thank u from the bottom of my [heart] for the outpouring of trailer love yesterday,” Platt wrote in a since-deleted tweet. “the film required me to revisit areas of personal pain, so seeing ppl excited & moved makes it so deeply worth it. PS to the randos being jerks about age, read this great article and/or watch grease.”

The link was to the Vanity Fair PR piece.

What did he think was going to happen? The fact that this reaction apparently came as a shock to him really does say a lot about how he sees himself.

"Randos" are among people who buy (or don't buy) movie tickets, when they can. You shouldn't insult potential fans. Not when your Dad has all the money invested in trying to get you an Oscar nomination at least.

We see you white Evan Hansen

I have to imagine Ben's been eating his feelings for the last day now.

I can guarantee that a whole cult will grow up around Dear Evan Hansen. It will be like Rocky Horror where people where costumes, talk back to the screen, bring props and do weird group gyrations.

While Glenn may or may not eventually play the lead in Sunset Boulevard, it does seem with all eventuality that Ben is destined to live Sunset Boulevard, eventually ensconced in his father’s crumbling Hollywood mansion wearing caftans, turbans and heavy makeup talking about the good old days of movie making and how the screens got smaller and slowly loosing his mind as his faithful (now) manservant Beanie, tries (their) best to look after him.

And who says it will not? The cameras roll next month! We just need to secure the last bit of (ok, all) the financing.

Would that make Noah Galvin the monkey?

Nobody would go to see a film with Andrew Barth Feldman in it.

[quote]Daddy gave Ben a spanking after he tweeted that.

Pics please

[quote] Nobody would go to see a film with Andrew Barth Feldman in it.

¿r128, would anybody go to a movie with Anthony Ramos in it? Asking for an amigo.

They should have just filmed the OBC for Great Performances or cast an age appropriate actor in the lead for the movie.

There was no way that Ben wasn’t getting the lead in the DEH movie as long as daddy is financing it. Also, this was never about doing justice to the source material, it was always about Marc Platt trying to ‘Mama Rose’ His son the an EGOT.

Platt told James Corden he wants to do a straight play on Broadway. I suggest he play Laura in "The Glass Menagerie" with Noah as the Gentleman Caller.

R133 Well, he’s already lame so why not.

Does [italic]Music Man[/italic] have a Winthrop yet?

Kevin Sessums saw DEH and found it so “transcendent”, he ran to the bathroom at intermission and began vigorously fisting himself!!

Does live Fall TV have its Annie yet? Because all they would need to do is color Ben’s hair and style those curls a little.

OT NY in the 70s when it had attitude

R138 Ha, the scrolling messages at the bottom - I didn't realise that was actually a thing, I thought it was just something they made up for an episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

Big flop, ran few weeks but the first time Cameron talked about Les Mis to Patti.

Patti LuPone playing Nancy was a ridiculous casting choice. Nancy can be played in several different ways, but Long Island fishwife is not one of them.

Drama Book Shop, Backed by Lin-Manuel Miranda, to Open in June:

Jeremy Pope Is Ready To Break Free And Claim What's His:

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1916, "The Seagull" opened at the Bandbox Theatre, now demolished.

Ben Platt should star in a revival of "In My Life." Now that was a weird ass show!

Such a star-studded cast, r144!

[quote]Ben Platt should star in a revival of "In My Life." Now that was a weird ass show!

Oh yes, please. Let's add stuttering and Tourette's to his repertoire of adorable tics.

[quote]Such a star-studded cast, [R144]!

Not a Russian among them. Russian Lives Matter!

[quote] Jeremy Pope Is Ready To Break Free And Claim What's His:

r143 he can claim me anytime he wants

The Bandbox was formerly the Adolph Philipp on E. 57th Street...

[quote] but Long Island fishwife is not one of them

r141 you love saying "Long Island fishwife" about PattiLu as often as you can, don't you?

And PS r141 isn't "Long Island fishwife" sort of the US equivalent of Cockney barmaid?

[quote]you love saying "Long Island fishwife" about PattiLu as often as you can, don't you?

I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, Josh, but your mother was nothing but a common Long Island fishwife who could yell on key.

Is he being forced out so they can install a POC?

Doe Music Man have a producer yet?

Barry Diller and David Geffin were co-producers of the The Music Man from the beginning. The production itself has never been in trouble other than from Covid.

R159, but neither Diller nor Geffen are hands-on producers like Rudin, they're really both just major investors. Somebody is going to have to continue to produce the show in terms of making day-to-day decisions about hundreds of aspects of the production, so either they'll have to get someone other than Rudin to do that. Or maybe Rudin will continue to do it and they'll just lie and say he's not actively involved, or perhaps they'll put someone else's name on the show as a figurehead producer but it will still be SR.

and Diller is busy opening Little Island in NYC

R161 Is that a reboot of Fantasy Island, but closer? Can we go live out our wildest desire there with an ironic twist meant to teach us a lesson and hubris?

This is the Datalounge r162. No one, I mean NO ONE needs to teach us hubris.

r159, you know nothing about how Broadway really works. You may see a bunch of names above a title of a show, but usually only one or two of them are running the actual show. Geffen travels the world on his yacht making everyone come and kiss his ass, and Diller is too busy working the scene to convince everyone he's still a player. These guys don't have time or interest to sit in dingy mid-town office and hammer out deals, budgets and marketing campaigns. They are too old and too rich. They just want their money back, and away from Rudin at this point. They'll probably find someone who will be a puppet to Rudin. He's not going to let go of controlling Music Man.

R164 Don’t they have extensive staff to handle all that shit? Hopefully ones they don’t undermine like Rudin?

Geffen and Diller are not producers. They are investors. They don't have staffs that know how to produce a Broadway musical. It takes years to learn that craft.

R166 They have all the money in the world to buy out the best people they need. You don’t think Diller knew how to build an island in the middle of the Hudson River on his own do you?

Almost everything you say, r164, is accurate, but then there's this:

[quote] you know nothing about how Broadway really works.

Uncalled for assholery. And I'm not r159.

[quote]Geffen travels the world on his yacht making everyone come and kiss his ass

Pics please.

For some ludicrous reason, someone on the ridiculous All That Chat is pining for Audra to be in The Music Man instead of Sutton, saying imagine her "My White Knight." With no realization of how absurd is would be for a Marian who's Black to sing about a white knight.

The more interesting question is West Side Story? Will it even re-open? What's the point with the film coming out?

R170 that reminds me of when the King Kong musical opened on Broadway a few years ago and they cast a black 'Ann Darrow.' In one of her songs, the lyrics are "If I could break these chains" and "Our lives cannot be kept in cages," which immediately conjures up images of slave ships/auctions. I remember the woman sitting next to me giving me a look during this song.

Audra McDonald is overrated.

What about “Leap of Faith” that actually had a burning cross on stage? And it was supposed to be a miracle, not a threat.

r170 you aren't supposed to be focusing on Audra being Black.

That's the thing that people miss, you keep seeing color instead of focusing on the performance.

Either she is good at playing or singing the part or she isn't. The point is to forget the color and focus on what is happening.

However I will say that as a Black person it irritates me and pisses me off that no one is allowed to sing R&B anymore but white people. When people hold up Kelly Clarkson as being a great singer with a soulful voice I want to smack somebody. Timberlake, Bieber, Sam Smith. I grew up with the classic soul and R&B singers, I don't give a fuck about those white guys and I don't want to hear them but somehow that is not a problem for white listeners. White people just listen to the music and don't think about the fact that soulful sound is coming from a white person.

So if you (or others ) suspend your reality for that, why not try it on the flip side, take it a little further. Don't see Audra's brown skin, just listen and watch.

Thank you, I'm learning, r175. The song "My White Knight" does seem to be particularly troublesome in the environment you envision.

"My White Knight" isn't troublesome for Marion who is singing the song.

Marion is dreaming of her love and if we get in that place with her it won't be troublesome for us either.

I want to see Jeremy Pope as Harold Hill.

Wasn't Mandy Patinkin available?

THR reviews "In the Heights":

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1959, "Gypsy" opened at the Broadway Theatre.

Just asking, don't kill me.

Would the master of ceremonies part in Caberet work with a guy who isn't a twink?

Could you go with someone beefier or is it dependent on the androgynous factor?

[quote]That's the thing that people miss, you keep seeing color instead of focusing on the performance.

Fact is, colorblind casting is not one size fits all; it can't be employed successfully in every show, especially if it takes place in a specific time and place. I remember when Disney adapted for TV Rodgers & Hammerstein's CINDERELLA (starring Brandy and Whitney Houston) in the late '90s, there were some people who complained because of the multiracial casting, especially with the prince being Filipino and his parents black and white. The main complaint was that it made no sense. But the story takes place in a magical fairy land where anything goes, so you are able to easily suspend disbelief.

However, when Disney tried again the same tactic with ANNIE (Audra played Grace and the orphans were multiracial) it made no sense, because ANNIE is more grounded in reality and specifically takes place at the height of the Great Depression in the early 1930s. FDR's New Deal plays a major part in the show. Furthermore, you really have to suspend disbelief that a white American billionaire of that time would have a black secretary and ask her to marry him. I know you want people to "not see color,' but you can only ask people to suspend so much disbelief. They already are when they watch a musical since most people don't burst into song/dance in real life. But to ask them to suspend ALL disbelief is ridiculous; it's the definition of crazy. Just cast appropriately, for God's sake! Or better yet, create new shows for POC. There is such a thing as miscasting.

Also, if people are hell-bent on colorblind casting, it should work both ways, not just POC being cast in traditional white roles. That hypocrisy I don't like.

BTW: I don't think the R&B analogy is a good one.

God, I'm so sick of listening to theater people whine. Just shut up already.

Michael C Hall was amazing as the Emcee and had quite a nice body at the time.

Stamos did the role, too, and was not a twink. So did Michael Cerveris.

[quote] Would the master of ceremonies part in Caberet work with a guy who isn't a twink?

Alan Cumming wasn’t a twink.

Cumming was an over the hill twink.

[quote] Stamos did the role, too, and was not a twink. So did Michael Cerveris.

R191 I think you’re getting Cabaret and Hedwig mixed up for Cerveris

Has anyone ever (seriously) cast a woman or a non-binary actor in CABARET as the MC?

I think it could work.

[quote] This is quite ballsy.

I wonder if she’s one of those passive-aggressive types. I’m sure some of her complaints are legitimate but others are questionable.

Like giving her a key to the theater. Many theaters limit who gets keys, often asking people to coordinate with stage management or the house manager.

I would like to see the emcee played by the gorilla and the gorilla played by a twink.

Hal Prince hired a woman--Blanche Aubry--to play the Emcee in the Vienna reproduction of his Broadway "Cabaret." She is quite something on the 1970 Vienna cast recording.

Ally Sheedy played the Emcee.

I’d like to see the Emcee played by Leslie Jordan. His “If Ya’ll Could See Her Through Mah Eyes” would be definitive. And I can see him rolling his eyes in that “Are y’all believing this?” way at some of the things Sally does? “Honey, you wouldn’t catch me drinking raw eggs!”

Unless I am very much mistaken, r190, that's Victoria Clark as Fritzie opposite Hall in Cabaret.

Bob Fosse famously tried to cast Ruth Gordon as the Emcee in his film of CABARET until he was convinced it was a bad idea.

R170, I think most people know that the phrase "white knight" does not refer to skin color.

Or perhaps you are going to argue that Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is about a fight with lizard man?

[quote]I know you want people to "not see color,' but you can only ask racists to suspend so much disbelief

FTFY

Nothing here about Everybody’s Talking About Jamie totally bypassing theaters and only streaming on Amazon Prime this September. It must suck. Well, those songs are generic as hell, to begin with.

Maybe I'm being hopelessly naïve, but I want to believe that once theater is unmistakably up and running, we'll get a lot less whiny "And then I was abused ... and then I was abused ..." pieces from actors.

The fact that Audra is a menopausal fifty years old is likely more of an issue with her playing Marian than her skin tone. But then again Sutton Foster is 46... For the story to make any sense, Marian should be in her mid to late 20s

[quote]Marian should be in her mid to late 20s

I could age up for the role.

Didn’t Chita play the Emcee in stock?

Chita pretty much played the role in “Kiss of the Spider Woman.”

I believe that was Barbara Cook, r212.

[quote] I believe that was Barbara Cook

It was the same season she played Fanny Brice and Carmen Jones.

[quote] God, I'm so sick of listening to theater people whine. Just shut up already.

Whines R187, devoid of irony and without a touch of awareness.

Cook as Fanny, with George Hamilton as her Nicky. 1967.

I think Ruth Gordon would have been an interesting way to go, but ultimately wouldn't have worked. And I would not have wanted to see it in THAT particular film version. But the idea of a possibly malevolent, but ultimately victimized old woman as the Emcee, especially with the absence of Fraulien Schneider and Herr Schulz, is very intriguing. I also don't think Ruth had the acting chops to pull it off. What she did she did very well, but she had a very narrow range.

[quote] Whines [R187], devoid of irony and without a touch of awareness.

A- I'm not a theater person.

B- I was making a statement of fact, not whining.

C- You're an asshole. (Also a statement of fact.)

"However I will say that as a Black person it irritates me and pisses me off that no one is allowed to sing R&B anymore but white people. "

Huh??

R221 She didn’t do it in a wheelchair, how unoriginal!

R222 Cancel Hall and Oates! No more #blueeyedsoul!

R222 Yeah, I was confused by that shit, too.

I wasn't aware of a moratorium on black singers performing r&b/blues songs.

Jesus, Sutton "Fuck, I'm Bland As A Performer" Foster was bad enough casting as Marian, now you want to substitute in a just as bland but slightly older Audra McDonald?

With these elderly leads, they're gonna have to age the whole thing up.

Angela Lansbury as Mrs. Paroo.

Ron Howard as Winthrop, revisiting the role he made famous on screen in 1962.

Ben Platt as Tommy Djilas.

I agree, R226! I would be an excellent Marian to Hugh’s Harold Hill... after all, we are doing the Sunset movie together, cameras planning to roll next month (funding dependent). I made a mark as Nellie in my South Pacific, so what a wonderful opportunity to essay Marian, as well. A new Tony and an Oscar (fingers crossed).

I really liked Audra in ThreePenny Opera in LA. She was hot as mother fucking chips,

I've been to see Audra 8 times She went on 3 times instead of her understudy. I've had enough of Audra. But yes, when she's on, and SHE'S ON, she's wonderful. Thinks she's Olivo, I guess.

Shirley Jones played Mrs. Paroo in Northern California a few years ago. Anyone see it?

Northern California? No, I don't think so. But she slept with the cancer ridden Richard Rodgers to get a part in the chorus of the original South Pacific, and then Me and Juliet, so I can kind of admire her for that persistence. And again, I admire her for her persistence. Nothing like a performer who just keeps going.

No wonder she didn't ever hold against him what giant dicked Jack Cassidy did to get cast in Cole Porter's shows. I respect people who know how he world works and find their own happiness.

Hugh Jackman is a name that will sell out every performance, IF he gets good reviews. And he is likely to be well received as Harold Hill. So it doesn't really matter who plays Marian. Laura Osnes is the obvious choice. She's the right type, got the right voice, and she's still only 35 years old. Laura and Hugh would look great together.

Hugh Jackman would look creepy chasing Osnes around that library

Kelly Marie Tran as Marian! I didn’t realize she had Broadway ambitions until I saw Miscast this week.

Richard Rodgers was in his mid-40s when South Pacific opened. And he wasn't "cancer-ridden."

Robert Preston was 39 when he played Harold Hill on stage and 44 when he did the film. That's about the right age. There should be something vaguely creepy in his pursuit of Marian. He is not a nice man. The genius of the show is you root for an absolute shit of a human being when you look at what he actually does. Barbara Cook was 29. Probably a little bit old to believably have a ten or twelve year old brother but not impossible. For the dynamic to work best - Harold should be about 40, Marian about 25 and Mrs. Paroo about 50. And the Shinns should be in their forties and the believable parents of a ten year old Gracie and sixteen year old Zaneeta, not seventy year old gorgons.

r238 - Keep in mind how old Grecian urns are.

Shhhhh! Zaneeta is adopted.

Will Ben Platt do a sequel to Dear Evan Hansen? Maybe Sincerely Evan Hansen where he becomes a suicide crisis counselor?

Harvey Fierstein as Ethel Toffelmier

TCG and American Theatre magazine have been completely taken over by the crazies. Ever average actor who is disgruntled, a marxist, and/or wildly childish banded together to create a magazine that is essentially an extreme left "Burn Book." This is why regional theatres are dying, but they just insist on blaming the audiences or the injustice or how everyone doesn't understand how great their work is. It's really sad. Regional theatre used to be about creating art and life for a community. Now its about helping cities have "conversations that make them uncomfortable." They'll all be empty in 10 years.

Here's the clue that she's Cra-Zee: Hester Kamin (she/her) is a director, choreographer, writer, actor, and arts educator who has lived and worked around the world. Since September 2020, she has held 17 jobs

[quote]Regional theatre used to be about creating art and life for a community. Now its about helping cities have "conversations that make them uncomfortable." They'll all be empty in 10 years.

Excellent point. Regional theaters were also useful in helping unknown writers build their careers. Look how many Broadway shows began in regional theaters.

Well, the wolves seem to like her...

That was Mahagonny, r228...

I don't doubt the veracity of the incidents described by the author linked at R186.

But if you work in regional theatre and have bullets flying through your windshield and colleagues are threatening to impale you with stakes, then I guess that has more to do with the region than with the theatre. The problem wasn't the job, but rather that it was in Bumfucke, Iowa.

[quote] Since September 2020, she has held 17 jobs

r244 I think she comes across horribly, but working in theater, those may be gigs, not jobs-if you know what I mean-and that's not a lot.

r143: Out magazine on Jeremy Pope: Jeremy Pope Is Ready To Break Free And Claim What's His

EW on MJ Rodriguez: [italic]Pose[/italic] Star MJ Rodriguez Is Ready to Claim What's Hers

Maybe this upcoming "Music Man" will be told through the viewpoint of Marcellus! Reassign some songs. Calling Nathan Lane! Hell, Nathan would have been a better Harold Hill than Matthew Broderick.

[quote]I think she comes across horribly, but working in theater, those may be gigs, not jobs-if you know what I mean-and that's not a lot.

Also, if anyone cared to notice, she held all of those jobs -- whatever they were -- during the pandemic, which is a lot more understandable.

Jeremy Pope should focus on his acting skills first because I’ve seen him in several things and he’s never more than ‘meh.’ He’s downright embarrassing on Pose but who isn’t?

A 40 year old man in rural Iowa in 1913 would be considered practically at death's door and long past a sexual life. And he should NOT be a contemporary of Mayor Shinn.

I think Harold should be early 30s and Marian early 20s. Those ages were considered far older back then than they are now, especially for a traveling salesman and the town spinster. Mayor Shinn should be around 50.

I'm not familiar with this show. Was it a musical version of Benjamin Button?

Sarah Jessica Parker Broderick just announced she’ll soon be filming a Hocus Pocus sequel. She starts shooting SATC reboot this summer. When will she squeeze in Plaza Suite?

she could easily do SATC and Plaza Suite at the same time.

Those clips of Patti (and Mandy in the second half of the Rainbow High video) are a kick. Love them or hate them, I miss the days of genuinely interesting and unique stars.

How much you wanna bet, it will be Plaza Suite staring Matthew Broderick and Cynthia Nixon.

Jeremy Pope is just an OK actor. And in that Netflix thing he was miscast as an object of Hollywood elite desire.

Has anyone watched Audra's new TV series, "The Bite"?

How much you want to bet it will be Plaza Suite starring Matthew Broderick and Nathan Lane?

Spectrum is still doing original programming? I thought they shut that down.

I knew Nathan would eventually turn to the Maureen Stapleton roles, r268!

I think Nathan will play them more like Maureen's successor in the roles, Peggy Cass!

Don't act like you don't know, R260.

Clear space for that tiara, gentlemen:

[quote]A collection of Broadway memorabilia, Tony Awards, and other belongings from the personal collection of late Broadway legend and Hello, Dolly! star Carol Channing will hit the auction block June 17 in an online-only sale, administered by Abell Auction Company. Among the items set to be up for bidding are Channing's three Tony Awards, a 1968 Golden Globe for her performance in Thoroughly Modern Millie, a dress Channing wore on stage performing the title number from Hello, Dolly!, and a tiara prop from Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, along with many other personal effects and mementos collected over her more than seven decades–long career on stage and screen.

One famous Channing imitator is already chomping at the bit to bid.

There are "famous" Channing imitators in the twenty-first century?

I love you queens stating what ages the Music Man "characters" should be-which is really just you extrapolating what the original cast was like in today's terms. If the director has a reasonable idea, it's up to them to make the ages work.

I'm fairly certain that audience members who gloried in the magic of the original production were not spending time on the way home speculating on the age of the characters and if Marian and Winthrop were plausible siblings.

R278, it is not the original cast but rather the story the determines the ages. Marion has a ten year old brother.

Siblings that are 20 years apart are not uncommon. 30 years apart are conceivable. But when you get to 40 years apart, it seems extremely unlikely.

In a few years, I think I’d appropriate for the young 20s version of Marian. It never occurred to me until this thread, but I would enjoy a return to the stage before my 30s.

[quote] a dress Channing wore on stage performing the title number from Hello, Dolly!

Do you know what size it is?

[quote] 30 years apart are conceivable.

Groan.

There must be a zillion Carol/Dolly gowns out there.

but only a few with bits of corn

How about the gown Lee Roy Reams wore when he played Dolly?

[quote]Clear space for that tiara, gentlemen

A tiara? Out of my way, bitches!

I wonder what happened to Lee Roy's fabulous Theoni Alredge gowns that he was going to wear as a replacement Albin in the original Broadway La Cage aux Folles? He had been announced, rehearsed, dressed, photographed and all set to go on when Allan Carr and the other producers suddenly pulled the plug and closed the show on one week's notice despite the penalties that entailed.

The photos were published in After Dark but I can't find them. Most people think the show was closed because the first wave of the plague was at its height, the atmosphere backstage funereal and nobody wanted to go on.

Does anyone know or remember?

At least with Shirley Jones you can believe Marian Paroo actually had a past.

Not so with Cheno.

Does Marian have a past, though? There are the rumors about her and the old guy who leaves her all the library books in his will, but I thought she was waiting for her white Knight. I don’t think the libretto implies that she’s ever had another man.

Of course, she is fictional. So there is that.

I thought most of the characters in The Music Man were based on real people Meredith Wilson remembered from his youth, although not necessarily from Iowa and his childhood.

Winthrop was originally a crippled child in a wheelchair but even back then that was considered a bit over the top and he ended up a child with a lisp.

i don't care what the currently acceptable term for crippled is so shut up now because I don't care.

I think if Marian had had a past, Mrs. Paroo wouldn't be so eager for her to "find out what the gentleman wanted." Marian says "you'll find it in Balzac," not "He probably wanted anal."

[quote]Marian says "you'll find it in Balzac," not "He probably wanted anal."

And, as usual, Marian got it wrong.

Marian's past is that she was a good friend to an old man who was disliked by Mrs. Shinn. Period.

If her "past" included anything more than that, she would certainly not be giving piano lessons to the children of River City.

It's that same principled choice to do what she thinks is the right thing that leads her to defense of Harold. All the books she's read informs her refreshing ability to see the good things Harold has done. Without her wanting to know what makes Shakespeare and Beethoven great, her principled choice would be the typical American 'principled choice' of being pissed off and demanding her money back on Winthrop's instrument and band uniform.

It's called The Music Man, but Harold does little but scheme and connive. Marian's character drives how it all plays out.

I am watching Miscast 21 now.

Oh, Billy, your voice is gone, and singing that song was just tragic. And bad. And the end bit made me laugh in your face.

Over the years many have speculated that Winthrop is actually Marian's child.

Meredith Wilson's book He Doesn't Know the Territory, chronicles the writing of Music Man. It was originally conceived as a much darker story with Winthrop occupying a more central place in the narrative.

While I do not think Wilson meant for Winthrop to be Marion's child, he was smart enough to recognize that some theater goers might think that. It was a common tactic in the 50s/60s for dealing with unwed pregnancies that audiences would know about.

R298 I love will talk about this. And think about it. What, 60 years later.

Good show.

[quote] Marian says "you'll find it in Balzac," not "He probably wanted anal."

I think with Hugh, that’s always implied.

[quote]Does Marian have a past, though? There are the rumors about her and the old guy who leaves her all the library books in his will, but I thought she was waiting for her white Knight. I don’t think the libretto implies that she’s ever had another man.

Please. That hussy took on the entire school board at one time.

[quote] Marian says "you'll find it in Balzac,"

No r294 one of the ladies says that, accusatorially

[quote] I love will talk about this. And think about it. What, 60 years later.

r299 are you drunk?

R294 is correct. The exchange in "The Piano Lesson" is something like. "Mrs. Paroo: It wouldn't have hurt you to find out what the gentleman wanted, Marian: I know what the gentleman wanted. Mrs. Paroo: What, dear? Marian: You'll find it in Balzac. Mrs. Paroo: Excuse me for living, but I've never read it."

If the MUSIC MAN revival is a success, Hugh's successor as Harold HIll will be a POC. Count on it.

(and if they're qualified for the part, I heartily approve)

Tituss Burgess as Harold Hill

Love Tituss, but he was born to play Mother Paroo.

Gregory Hines would have made a superb Harold Hill.

Will Smith would certainly sell tickets.

R292 In this woke day and age and Broadway’s need to hit diversity notes, it’s time to restore this to the original idea and have Ali Stroker play Winthrop as the more close in age sister. She can be waiting for the Well’s Fargo Wagon to be bringing her a new wheelchair, one of those beautiful rattan ones with woven seats and back.

There are already two other Tony-winning females in the cast.

Oh jeez, r304, you're right. I'm wrong, and I apologize to r294! (And thanks for not correcting me with a typical DL "you're a fucking idiot and you don't fucking know anything" comment.)

Hadestown and Girl From the North Country announced their returns today. Just a few more left ... WSS, Mormon, Mockingbird and Harry Potter.

Quotable as it is, I don't expect everyone to have the script for The Music Man committed to memory.

[quote] Just a few more left ... WSS, Mormon, Mockingbird and Harry Potter.

Calling it now: the first 2 will NOT reopen. The second 2 will.

And now Thoughts Of a Colored Man has set its opening -- Oct. 31 at the Golden (or the Gold, as we in the know refer to it).

Harry Potter didn't give a specific date, but they announced that they would be coming back at some point in 2022, right? Just in a different format, I think, which I assume means one play.

[quote]Quotable as it is, I don't expect everyone to have the script for The Music Man committed to memory.

It tends to help if you are actually in the show.

The cock swinging but dull Norm Lewis for replacement Harold Hill!

Norm lost his chances for that with his now legendary non-performance at The Kennedy Center. He had a year to prepare, but...

[quote]dull Norm Lewis

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.

He can't sing fast enough either

It also helps if the cast album of the MM was played endlessly at your parents' parties.

I'm Matthew Broderick and Sarah Jessica Parker in Plaza Suite. If one of us were going to pass on Covid to their co-star they've already done it.

What about Usher or John Legend as Harold Hill? Alas, with John, you get Chrissy ...

If Mockingbird does reopen I hope Greg Kinnear finally takes over as Atticus.

Are there really no POC in the Music Man as some people keep insisting?

R328 No, why do you think they got trouble in River City.

None of the announced leads are BIPOC.

Not sure about Marcellus, Zaneeta, Tommy Djilas, Amaryllis and Ethel Toffelmier.....

Apparently Hugh Jackman intends to produce a bunch of Broadway projects...the stage version of the Greatest Showman can't be far away

[quote]"According to the friend, Jackman and Furness ... "can't wait to collaborate. They feel like there's nothing they can't accomplish together." … With new Broadway projects in mind, it may be that Jackman is trying to save face in the theatre community after sources said that the actor was "feeling pressure" to pull out of starring in The Music Man … "

I'm sure this has nothing to do with Furness not trusting Hugh enough to allow him to spend time in NYC alone.

And the Balzac line is on both the OBCR and the film soundtrack album. They were both big sellers and one or the other, if not both, was in nearly every household when I grew up.

[quote] "According to the friend, Jackman and Furness ... "can't wait to collaborate. They feel like there's nothing they can't accomplish together."

Except, of course, the insertion of his erect penis into her vagina.

The only thing Norm Lewis could sell tickets to, would be an orgy at a bathhouse.

And, he'd still be dull.

Don’t know if he would sell any tickets, but Seth MacFarlane would probably be a good Harold Hill.

MacFarlane could double as Winthrop, playing him as Stewie Griffin.

The entire run would sell out.

Whenever I get The Music Still Plays On from A New Brain in my head, it turns into Unexpected Song from Song and Dance ... it’s the same song!

B.D. Wong IS Harold Hill!

Brian Stokes Mitchell *is* Harold Hill.

Eric McCormack *was* Harold Hill.

Craif Bierko *was* Robert Preston (minus the magic).

He's as dead behind the eyes as Madonna was in [italic]Evita[/italic].

The casting calls for Djilas specified they were looking for actors of all ethnicities, not sure it benefits them to have the rabblerouser be the only POC role like Hack O'Brien did in Carousel a few years ago

Is Jayne Houdyshell playing Mrs. Paroo or Mrs. Shinn in the revival? And who's playing the other lady? Who is playing Mayor Shinn?

Is Marcellus cast? He would be well-played by a BIPOC.

Is Jayne Houdyshell is playing Mrs. Shinn. Marie Mullen is playing Mrs. Paroo. Shuler Hensley is playing Marcellus. All six announced cast members are Tony Award winners.

Cynthia Erivo IS Amaryllis!

Harry Potter has already reopened in Melbourne.

I saw a production of The Music Man at a regional theater festival some years ago in which Marian was Black (Mrs. Paroo and Winthrop were Caucasian) and Marcellus was Deaf (Ethel Toffelmier was his girlfriend and translated his ASL; Harold Hill was also ASL-fluent). Marcellus and Ethel were charming, Marian was not. She could sing the part, but she was a terribly wooden actor and the show ground to a halt every time she appeared.

The best color-blind casting I've seen is Armando Iannucci's film The Personal History of David Copperfield. The cast is uniformly excellent and the lickety-split pace gives you no time to sit and think things like, Well, I guess Marian was adopted.

r349 So did the gossipy ladies imply that Old Miser Madison was "down with the swirl?"

Fleabag (the play), Frankenstein (with Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller), Hamlet (with Cumberbatch) and Sir Ian McKellen's greatest hits coming to Amazon Prime June 11.

R288 -- Lee Roy's Broadway La Cage costumes were inherited by one of the large costume companies (the Wick Theatre in FL owns them now, where Lee Roy did a production in the same outfits).

He can be seen here in a 1999 regional production in what's likely his original (unused) Theoni costumes. Also on display are the original national tour sets!

The silence coming from West Side Story is remarkable. Those kids must be freaking out that they won't have jobs.

How did people like the Carousel revival with Joshua Henry and Jessie Mueller?

Everybody was either terrible or dull except for Alexander Gemignani who was very good.

Has anyone posted yet about "Hadestown"? They're going ahead of everyone else and reopening September 2nd. I wonder if this will cause some of the others to move up their reopening dates?

Jessie Mueller as Julie Jordan was a head scratcher but it seemed, for a while, like they were looking for things to use her in.

R353 If it does close that seems particularly cruel to keep them in the dark for so long. Especially as I assume casting will begin soon enough for the reopening where parts need to be filled, and they might not put themselves forward if they think they have WSS.

That said, Isaac Cole Powell has just returned to NYC from the, oh shall we say delights?, of North Carolina, so maybe something's up.

Jessie Mueller was much better as Carrie in the Lincoln Center CAROUSEL concert.

Yes, I saw that and Jessie makes a good Miss Pipperidge.

[quote]Isaac Cole Powell has just returned to NYC from the, oh shall we say delights?, of North Carolina

Did Wesley go with him?

[quote] The silence coming from West Side Story is remarkable. Those kids must be freaking out that they won't have jobs.

r353 just because they've told you what they're doing doesn't mean no one else knows.

Agree: Jessie Mueller was a standout as Carrie in the Lincoln Center production. Not sure why she didn't quite work out as Julie. She wasn't terrible, just unremarkable. The show belonged to Gemignani.

R361 to NC? Yeah he did, not sure if he's still there or come back to NYC too.

r363 I felt the same way watching Jessie in Waitress. She sings the part really well and her physicality in the scenes with Dr. Pomatter is great but overall she's just meh.

I think Jessie is the real deal. She's as good an actress as she is a singer. Waitress would have been utter garbage without her.

Those National Theatre productions will be streaming on Amazon Prime [bold]exclusively in the UK & Ireland[/bold]; not in the US or internationally R351.

Jessie is an okay actress. She won't ruin anything but she's not outstanding. Her vocals will carry her though.

Jessie is a true second banana.

I had not seen Mueller until CAROUSEL on Broadway. I was expecting a lot, based on her outstanding rep.

I agree that she was quite dull. Not terrible, but easily upstaged by Lindsay Mendez as Carrie (who deserved her TONY for the role). Mueller also had zero chemistry with Joshua Henry's Billy; I didn't understand her take on Julie at all.

The best thing about that production was Justin Peck's choreography, which had breathtaking moments.

R368 Think we have all seen them by now.

Joshua Henry was terrible too. The director has to be blamed for the overall dullness.

Lindsay Mendez, Tony winner. It still doesn't track.

FLEABAG is quite good as a solo theatre piece, and significantly different from the TV adaptation. Worth seeing.

But I'm one of the people who wish she'd ended it with Season 1. The second season was so much less involving to me.

I was bored senseless by the live Fleabag. I didn't love the tv show, but it was watchable. She is massively overrated.

[quote]Mueller also had zero chemistry with Joshua Henry's Billy.

That's my main problem with Jessie in general r371. She doesn't really have great chemistry with anybody. She's just there.

Honestly, has there ever been a production of CAROUSEL in which the Carrie didn't outshine the Julie? The former really has far better material and Julie is also inevitably and ultimately a wet dish rag who takes the spousal abuse....how does any actress overcome that, especially in these woke times?

That being said, I agree with all the upthread posters who see Jessie Mueller as a competent but dull performer. She and Sutton Foster and Kelli O'Hara are the trifecta of dull leading ladies. It's sad that Marin Mazzie and Rebecca Luker weren't more appreciated when they were at the height of their glorious powers.

So many musical theatre "stars" are completely underwhelming as actors. Gorgeous voices, but at a loss as to how to inhabit a character or make interesting choices.

Kelli O'Hara wasn't dull in Piazza. She was luminous.

Wasn't her character....um....dull?

[quote]Has anyone posted yet about "Hadestown"? They're going ahead of everyone else and reopening September 2nd. I wonder if this will cause some of the others to move up their reopening dates?

Why on earth would it cause "some of the others to move up their opening dates?" That would be idiotic.

[quote]Joshua Henry was terrible too. The director has to be blamed for the overall dullness.

I think the main problem with that production was that they made a point of casting a black actor as Billy and then, only belatedly, they realized they had to tone down and shy away from some of the more troublesome aspects of that character and the plot, so as not to make it seem like they were presenting the only POC among the leads as the villain of the piece.

[quote]Why on earth would it cause "some of the others to move up their opening dates?" That would be idiotic.

Because if one does it, it can often make others want to follow suit? It's not an outrageous question and why you think it is makes you sound, um, idiotic.

We don’t need Amazon. We have Valens :)

So what kind of rep does Kevin McCollum have? I just saw a job posting where he's looking for an assistant.

[quote] Why on earth would it cause "some of the others to move up their opening dates?" That would be idiotic.

r382 you're being idiotic. The first show back will get all the "Broadway's Back!" publicity. Duh.

which would be catnip to LMM... but someone else has done it first! If he changed dates now, it would be uber obvious that he's only after PR glory.

In response to my comment, "Why on earth would [the announced reopening date of HADESTOWN] cause some of the others to move up their opening dates? That would be idiotic," I got the following reactions:

[quote]You're being idiotic. The first show back will get all the "Broadway's Back!" publicity. Duh.

[quote]Because if one does it, it can often make others want to follow suit? It's not an outrageous question and why you think it is makes you sound, um, idiotic.

Sorry, but I do think it would be idiotic FOR SHOWS THAT HAVE ALREADY ANNOUNCED THEIR REOPENING DATES to move them up several weeks simply because HADESTOWN announced an earlier reopening. First of all, it would make the shows that have already announced look incredibly bad to move up their dates for that reason, as R387 noted. But also, I imagine a lot of planning has already gone into making sure the shows are prepped and everything else necessary needs to be done for the shows to reopen when they said they would, and to move those dates forward by several weeks would not be easy by any means.

Isn't it already uber obvious to everybody?

[quote] It's sad that Marin Mazzie and Rebecca Luker weren't more appreciated when they were at the height of their glorious powers.

That's because they were both even duller than Jessie Mueller or Sutton Foster. Lovely voices both, but neither were anything to write home about in the acting department, especially Luker.

Samuel E. Wright, 2-time Tony nominee, Dies at 74:

No offense to Samuel Wright, but if I never hear that fucking crab sing Under the Sea again, it won't be too soon.

The core problem with Carousel is the fact that Julie is a nebbishy boob and Billy is a thuggish moron.

They're not an appealing couple to center a plot on.

So in the movie version of Carousel would you say that it was the camera that made Shirley Jones' performance what it was, because she was wonderful as Julie, not a wet dish rag at all.

I bought tickets to Carousel because I thought Mueller and Henry was such great casting, but the production was horrible. The director ruined the show and nwither star was good in it. I have to admit, I really disliked the choreography too, even though it was the thing that got the best reviews. It was certainly inventive, but didn't really have anything to do with the action on stage or the intention of the scene, it was just inventive for it's own sake. (and the choreographer's ego, I suppose.) I barely remember Geminani in it, but Lindsey Mendez was definitely the stand out. (though completly miscast, she was at least fun and funny.) Oh, and that opening with that one sad horse...horrible!!!

Did they or did they not omit the slap in Carousel? I read that they considered it too problematic to have a black man slap a white woman.

For me the most memorable performance in that Carousel revival was Margaret Colin as the non-singing, non-dancing Mrs. Mullins. She was so powerful in Billy's death scene (with no dialogue!) that Jack O'Brien had to cut her out of the scene.

No slap. I'm sure as much because of "me, too" as the black man-white woman thing.

When Disney, Hamilton and Wicked "united" for their big announcement, they assumed all the other shows wouldn't dare take away from their claim to be the "first" back. Is was a completely cynical move dressed up to seem like something else. HADESTOWN went, yeah, no thanks. And now HADESTWON will get all the worldwide press on being "the first" Broadway show to re-open after the pandemic. And the producers of the "big three" are pissed! But it's not over yet...Look for another show to open even earlier...

and folks who bought tickets to be at the first perfs of Hamilton, Wicked and Lion King would be pissed to end up at the fifteenth!

Fun interview with Daniel Davis including story about when he was in Coco with Katharine Hepburn:

I saw that first big West End Carousel revival that did color blind casting as well as the Mueller one, the London production, which I think came to the US as well, was head and shoulders above the more recent one. It was magical, especially the abstracted carousel, which I think they did very literally in this time on Broadway. Mendez didn’t impress me all that much, it was no Dog Fight.

I wouldn't even consider going back to a crowded Broadway theatre (or any crowded theatre for that matter) until at least the summer of 2022. I hope I'll be proven wrong, but I doubt I will be.

R402, that London production originated at the National Theatre, not sure it transferred to the West End. Janie Dee was a delightful Carrie but Joanna Riding more than held her own as Julie. In that production Simon Rowe, who is black, as Mr. Snow. Mr. Snow and Carrie had a rainbow tribe of kids at the end of the show. Rowe’s casting was generally applauded but I did chuckle when I overheard someone say at intermission “The only way to make that Mr. Snow plausible is to have the second act open up with ‘That Was a Real Nice Lynchin’”

R404 Thanks, was using West End generically for London and didn’t remember details of where the production actually was done. Did it then transfer to Lincoln Center?

R402, yes it came to Lincoln Center and Audra won her first Tony for playing Carrie.

Also, the Carousel was far from abstracted as you can see in the various clips online. The stage of the NT and Lincoln Center's Vivian Beaumont are both round, so the the whole stage became the Carousel, spinning with horses and a canopy above.

[quote]And now HADESTWON will get all the worldwide press on being "the first" Broadway show to re-open after the pandemic.

"Worldwide press?" Most of the US doesn't know that "Hadestown" even exists. You greatly overestimate the interest in Broadway.

Broadway is an international brand, and its re-opening will be major news. Hadestown grabbed the ring, probably because their theatre owner didn't have one of those three other shows.

[quote]So in the movie version of Carousel would you say that it was the camera that made Shirley Jones' performance what it was, because she was wonderful as Julie, not a wet dish rag at all.

R394, I have to sadly disagree with that. I think Jones is wonderful in her other movies but she gives quite a poor performance in CAROUSEL, delivering many of her lines in a whiny tone that's an obviously fake indication and poor understanding of what the character is supposed to be. I blame the director, who pretty much ruined the whole damned movie.

[quote]And folks who bought tickets to be at the first perfs of Hamilton, Wicked and Lion King would be pissed to end up at the fifteenth!

Yes, exactly. One more reason why the question of whether those three big shows would move up their opening dates after all that publicity is a very odd one.

[quote]I wouldn't even consider going back to a crowded Broadway theatre (or any crowded theatre for that matter) until at least the summer of 2022. I hope I'll be proven wrong, but I doubt I will be.

And what do you think will be different by the summer of 2022? Do you expect that COVID-19 will be completely eradicated from the planet by then? Is that what's necessary to get you back to the theater? Anyway, thanks for stating your boundaries, but really, we won't miss you.

[quote]Thanks, was using West End generically for London and didn’t remember details of where the production actually was done. Did it then transfer to Lincoln Center?

I'm surprised that someone who posts on a theatre gossip thread could somehow NOT know that the production in question transferred to Lincoln Center, given all the publicity it received for the excellence of the staging, Audra McDonald's performance as Carrie, the fact that Michael Hayden couldn't sing the role of Billy properly, etc.

Well, you certainly have the "pointless" part down really well r11 but you're a piss-poor bitch.

Fuck Charlotte St. Martin with a carrot grater. PARAMOUNT PLUS FOR THE TONYS???????

[quote] She was so powerful in Billy's death scene (with no dialogue!) that Jack O'Brien had to cut her out of the scene.

Details r397 on what she did? and how you know about jack cutting her?

At least three of Oscar Hammerstein‘s leading ladies in musicals get upstaged by supporting female characters: Laurie in Oklahoma, Magnolia in Show Boat and Julie in Carousel. Barbara Cook once complained about working her ass off as Magnolia in a production of Show Boat, and then Julie came out and sang two songs and stole the show.

She also preferred performing Carrie to Julie.

Isn't Carrie the one who ends up being a baby factory at the end?

Julie still manages to raise a daughter without a man around. Why doesn't that count for anything?

Learn how to read, r413. Paramount Plus for the first hour; CBS for the next two. Just like the old PBS days. But the show will be much more complete entertainment, and fewer awards. Given how bad awards ceremonies are performing, I'm shocked CBS agreed.

Who else was offering a deal?

Take a laxative, r411, and try not to post again until it kicks in.

Barbara Cook also played Ado Annie in "Oklahoma!" so she probably stole the show, too.

Well, if it's more entertainment than awards, it's already poised to be better than the Oscars. I hope it does well, at least in its demographic.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1971, "Lenny" opened at the Brooks Atkinson Theatre.

Now I have to check to see if I have Paramount+!!

If you have to check, then you don't.

r424 - I wonder how Sandy Baron was. I noticed that Penelope Milford was a replacement *Girl in Wheel Chair*.

Well, this is what happens when the network only aired the Tonys because its former head wanted them to.

Just to clear up what's happening. The first two hours will air on Paramount+ and be all the awards except Best Play, Best Revival of a Play and Best Musical (there being not Best Revival of a Musical this year). Those three will be presented during a two hour show on CBS, which will have performances from the nominated musicals (Jagged Little Pill, Moulin Rouge and Tina), as well performances of "classic" showtunes - which to CBS marketing probably means more Lloyd Webber than Rodgers and Hammerstein. Here's just hoping it's actual Broadway talent performing them, and not C-listers who have a series regular role in the many CBS procedurals.

Oh, and it's not the Tony Awards this year it's “The Tony Awards Present: Broadway’s Back!”, which sounds like a title that someone on 30 Rock would've come up with. It's the exclamation mark that tells you it's going to suck.

At least we can be thankful that they won't bring back Bonnie Franklin to host.

Perhaps they will allow Glenn to host the pre-show on that obscure streaming service. It seems a good fit, no?

Who will be singing opposite Aaron?

Deborah Cox??? That's the best they could do?

R434 So long as she turns up will be doing better than Olivio

Erika Jayne would make a wonderful Satine before she heads off to jail.

Kyle Dean Massey has been showing his diva side on Instagram. He and Taylor have bought a boat (always a wise choice to buy a moneypit just before you get a kid) and were showing off about it on IG yesterday. Obviously some criticism got to them, and Kyle posted a message that his critics could "choke". Not the best timing to tell people to choke, on the anniversary of the George Floyd murder, so they're being criticised all over again.

Those are some long in the tooth Satine's.

"The great pop R&B singer Deborah Cox" Besides that being a terribly constructed sentence starter, how great was she? Wasn't she basically a one hit wonder from nearly 25 years ago?

She was the 99cent store Whitney Houston.

What was the name of her hit? Nobody's Supposed to Be Here?

r438 the fact that these lunatics are attacking him over using the word "choke" shows just how far down the rabbit hole we've gone with this nonsense

[quote]Well, this is what happens when the network only aired the Tonys because its former head wanted them to.

R428, that's true, but to be fair, didn't they do something similar with the Tonys a few years ago while Moonves was still there? Remember there were a couple of years when they split the Tonys up, with the first few awards being presented on PBS, then at 9 you had to switch over to CBS for the so-called "glamour" categories -- Best Play, Best Musical, all the acting awards, etc. I can't recall how many years they actually did it (nor do I recall what made them stop doing it) but I do think Moonves was over the network when it happened.

Loved your comment by the way about the C-listers. What a perfectly hilarious (and terrifying) thought.

[quote] No offense to Samuel Wright, but if I never hear that fucking crab sing Under the Sea again, it won't be too soon.

Then how about something from [italic]Over Here![/italic] instead?

R444 2003 was the first year it was all on CBS (though the deal was done in 2002), and in 2004 CBS signed a six year deal to host the Tonys. Wikipedia says Moonves was promoted to CEO and chairman of CBS in 2003. He was president and CEO of CBS Television from 1998-2003, so it does seem his rise to power came at the same time. But of course, I'm just speculating. I'm just basing this on a few articles over the years that have said the Tonys were always protected as a Moonves pet project.

I'm sure everyone involved is rather nervous, the current contract with CBS ends in 2026.

When I say the first year it was on CBS, I meant recently. I'm sure decades ago it was all on CBS or whoever, I meant the first year after it stopped being on PBS, if that makes sense.

I really can't bring myself to watch it this year. The nominees are by and large ridiculous, and who the fuck wants to see Jeremy O. Harris win a Tony?

R448 Well if that's not enough JOH for you, he's also been cast in the next season of Emily in Paris! Because apparently he's an actor too, now. That must've been a very long list of black people that said no before they stopped on his name.

He's really hard to look at.

R446, I think you're absolutely right as I have always heard the same -- that the ONLY reason the Tonys have remained on CBS as long as they have, despite the ratings being basically terrible every year, is because Moonves and his wife are such Broadway fans. (I've seen them out at shows a few times over the years.) But now that he's history, I can't see that relationship continuing once the contract runs out unless they get lucky and the next person who takes over turns out to be a big Broadway fan also.

I heard the reason the Tonys have remained on CBS is because, while they may not get high ratings, they get a very wealthy demographic, which appeals to certain advertisers.

I don't really think it's in the bag for JOH. The voters may feel like rewarding an epic a la "Angels," which means "The Inheritance" might win, plus I think "Inheritance" has a good shot at winning other categories, including acting Tonys in the featured categories, which could also help propel it toward the main prize.

Tony Awards ratings were so bad in the 1980s that there was talk that they would dump the show onto A&E.

That's because AIDS took a huge chunk out of the audience. That's also why so few movie musicals came out after 1982 which had seven.

The state of Victoria in Australia, including Melbourne, will be put into a 7 day lockdown. I forgot if Harry Potter was playing there.

If CBS won't hang onto the Tonys, I wonder if PBS would want them back?

They can't even afford to keep [italic]Sesame Street[/italic] all to themselves anymore.

Les Moonves always thought of himself as Louis B. Mayer, and liked to think of himself as the head of the prestige studio, MGM. MGM always did a big prestige picture a year where they didn't care if it made or lost money (ie, The Wizard of Oz. which didn't start turning a profit until the 1948 re-release), The Tonys were CBS's prestige yearly broadcast when Moonves was in charge. He's not now, the Tonys have lost money for years, we'll see what happens.

Harry Potter and the Cursed Child will have to cancel a week of performances in Melbourne and Melbournian ticketholders for Hamilton in Sydney can’t go because the border will be closed.

[quote]The Tonys were CBS's prestige yearly broadcast when Moonves was in charge. He's not now, the Tonys have lost money for years, we'll see what happens.

I know it's silly because we're just talking about an awards show but I really would hate to see the Tonys lose their perch on a major network (if that happens). Obviously theater, particularly Broadway, has a much more limited appeal than movies, television and music, but the Tony is still considered one of the four major awards one can receive from the entertainment industry (it's the T after all in EGOT) and to see it pushed off to some fledgling streaming channel one day would be kind of degrading (though also unsurprising given that it's a money loser for a network like CBS). There's also the fact that there's always a hint of homophobia in its dismissal, a reflection of how some view the theater industry as a whole (i.e., its only appeal is to "the gays" unlike sports, which are for "real" men).

But given how all awards shows are bleeding ratings here lately -- including the Oscars -- one day they may all end up on a streaming channel, so the Tonys could find itself in good company.

Ed Dixon's play 'Georgie: My Adventures with George Rose" is streaming thru July on TheatreMania.com. I just finished watching it...and WOW. What a story. Dixon really brings George Rose back to life vividly and reveals the man off-stage. But it's a harrowing story.

I remember there being a blind item about Alex Winter being abused by an older man during the run of "Peter Pan" with Sandy Duncan. People immediately jumped to Rose (who curiously left that production early) but I suppose it could've also been his replacement, Christopher Hewett (Mr. Belvedere).

Anyone else catch this play? And did anyone on here know or work with Rose? I know Dixon received criticism from some over playing fast and loose with key plot points but it's a great theatrical ride for 90 mins!

Neither of the kids from that sitcom grew up to be criminals, R462.

Duncan's Peter Pan improved so tremendously when Hewett replaced Rose that I went back to see it a third time before it closed.

It's funny R464, I've heard this before from others who saw both. Was Rose just not up to snuff?

An anecdote from "Georgie" was that director Ron Field (who Rose called a 'mean old queen') once told Rose in front of the full company that he was "playing Hook like Hermione Fucking Gingold!" Perhaps this is why Hewett was such an improvement? Interestingly, Dixon who praises Rose's many turns never comments on his Hook at all.

$25 for a stream is too expensive.

It's cheaper than what Disney+ thinks its crappy and derivative new releases are worth.

Yeah, but I can wait a couple months and see those on the channel without paying more. I'd pay no more than $15 for a streaming piece, and never a movie.

The Disney+ things are worth it for families who have kids, since it's cheaper than taking the family to the movies.

My OnlyFans is starting up at $14 so you are all in luck!

Rose was perfunctory. Hewett was broad but hysterical. It was like Rose couldn't quite let himself go in an what is meant to be a gay, camp part.

I also was disappointed by Rose as Doolittle in the 20th anniversary revival of My Fair Lady. Not bad but undistinguished compared to Charles Victor, whom I had seen in the first national tour. And perfunctory is how I would describe his Major General although it worked. All those later performances were disappointing to me because I had loved him in My Fat Friend, the first show I actually saw on Broadway.

^ Maybe Rose was one of those performers who just walked through their parts after the excitement of the opening. Like Streisand.

When I posted above that Hewett's performance was broad, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't skilled. The only other time I've ever seen anyone control an audience like that, with both physical bits and comic timing, was Maggie Smith in Private Lives. I saw him both early and late into his performance and he was brilliant both times.

Interesting that Hewett was a dear friend of Hermione's and often evoked her persona in his performances.

Talking about Christopher Hewett makes me think of Ilene Graff. WHET?

Oh, Ilene Graff was lovely. I saw her in the National Company of PROMISES, PROMISES. She was terrific.

R474 Last I saw Ilene Graff she was backstage at Women on the Verge to see her daughter Nikka Graff Lanzarone.

Are they related to Randy Graff?

Syzma Graff was absolutely earth-shaking.

George Rose in My Fat Friend is one of the top 5 broadway performances I’ve ever seen. He was fucking brilliant.

I saw Ilene Graff as Sandy in Grease and Cleo in I Love My Life and she was delightful in both.

What was MY FAT FRIEND? And might it be worth reviving?

Sorry, Chrissy. That ain't gonna work. Not for you, anyway.

I met Graff (Ilene) on the set of Ryan's Hope. Met Randy at Thanksgiving dinner a few years back. Met Todd at John Glover's apartment. Randy and Todd are related somehow. Not sure about Ilene.

Ilene and Todd are brother and sister.

Apparently they're cousins.

To clarify, Ilene & Todd are Randy's cousins.

I dealt with Ilene a few years ago briefly and she was a nasty cunt.

Are David Leveuax and Susan Bristow from Nederlander together or still fucking? I see his a "consultant" on the new Britney musical, and I know there were rumors before

George Rose was stunning in MY FAT FRIEND, PIRATES OF PENZANCE, and THE MYSTERY OF DROOD. I don't even remember him in MY FAIR LADY, but I do remember the exceptional Christine Andreas.

If I recall correctly, "My Fat friend" was funny as hell, and would probably still work, if you set it in the 70's.

Where's the love for Lynn?

[quote]And perfunctory is how I would describe his Major General although it worked.

I suspect you don't understand what "perfunctory" means, especially not if you say "although it worked."

She is stunning and brave, R492.

Isaac Powell in his undies

What made Rose so exceptional in MFF?

I think Aaron Tveit should be very happy that WSS was not eligible for Tonys in the same year. As much as I didn't like the WSS revival, I thought Isaac Cole Powell's performance was fantastic. It was the best I've ever seen him and he totally delivered (his "Maria" was just gorgeous). I really think if he'd been nominated, he could've won.

First time I saw a John Lithgow was in MFF. He had a very funny drunk scene. Rose played a happy and content man who didn’t hate himself or commit suicide at the end. That was a novelty back then. In the play Redgrave lost a ton of weight to impress a man she spent a passionate night with. When he returned from business abroad after not having seen her for a year he was disappointed because, as it turns out, he prefers larger women. Redgrave was also wonderful and her fat suit deserves a special mention.

George Rose was also absolutely hysterical as Kolienkov in the '83 revival of 'You Can't Take It With You' with Jason Robards. He replaced James Coco (who was equally funny in his own way) and was in the version they filmed for television (though I believe they did it out at Papermill post-Broadway IIRC?)

Watching him command the stage in DROOD was one of the great nights in the theatre (I know, MARY!) I've never seen a performer exude more joy on stage. It was definitely gutting to learn of his dark side. It brought up the age old question of whether you can separate the man from their art.

I seriously doubt Christopher Hewett had a thing for exceedingly young actors but one of his best friends, the late Dean Dittman, certainly did.

One of the first internet memes was actually called "Mr. Belvedere sat on my balls."

[quote](though I believe they did it out at Papermill post-Broadway IIRC?)

Close. The production was done at Papermill and was very well received. The Plymouth Theater became available and the production was moved to Broadway.

[quote] Rose played a happy and content man who didn’t hate himself or commit suicide at the end. That was a novelty back then.

r559? a happy and content fat man? gay man? British man? pedophile man?

You Can't Take It With You - 1984.

Broadway’s Tony Awards, Delayed by Pandemic, Set for September:

[quote]The two-platform structure, running a total of four hours, was arrived at during lengthy negotiations between the Broadway League and the American Theater Wing — the two organizations that present the awards — and CBS, which has broadcast the ceremony since 1978. CBS pushed to emphasize entertainment value, particularly in a year when viewership has plunged for many awards shows; the theater organizations wanted a way to honor the artistry of the abbreviated 2019-2020 season.

[quote]“The ground was shifting under our feet the entire time, but our goal was to get as much celebration of the community and all the nominees as possible,” said the League’s president, Charlotte St. Martin.

[quote]In a joint interview, St. Martin and the Theater Wing’s chief executive, Heather Hitchens, said they were pleased with the outcome.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1980, "Of the Fields, Lately" opened at the Century Theatre.

And was more popular when reworked into the popular commercial "Have You Driven a Ford Lately?"

John Astin & Patti Duke Astin did MY FAT FRIEND in Summer Stock. They were both fantastic, but hubby John stole the show. here's a brief snippet from the old **OFFICIAL** SUMMER STOCK THEATER MEMORIES thread:

[quote]Later that summer (at the Falmouth Playhouse), we did My Fat Friend with Patty Duke Astin. Patty got very sick during the show and since there was no understudy, we tracked down Lynn Redgrave (who had done the role on Broadway) to see if she could fill in. She was not available, but she gave us the name of her Broadway understudy who was available, and who we flew in from New York to finish the week, playing opposite John Astin. Everything worked out, except the understudy was the same size as Lynn Redgrave (big girl), while Patty was tiny, so the costumes and the fat suit did not fit. Our apprentices did miracles to create a new wardrobe, and the show went on!

R512 I love Billy Boy, what a darling. That thread was golden!

Speaking of golden, Liza in London '86.

I love John Astin but I’ve heard he’s one of those stage actors who will not put the script down until he absolutely has to and drives his co stars crazy. Then he goes onstage and is letter perfect.

Company tickets starting at $59. See Patti LuPone in her last Broadway musical for 5-9 dollars.

I thought this was an interesting part of this review.

[QUOTE] Michael Bennett, director of the musical A Chorus Line, coldly prepares to replace a cast member who has AIDS—which will kill Bennett himself a few years later

West End shows in London have concession prices for unemployed. Will Broadway ever have that?

R517, that book is fictional short stories using real life people. Bennett never "coldly replaced someone" because of AIDS.

R516 Hopefully someone will offer another role too good to say no.

Bennett did coldly replace many different people from ACL.

Broadway productions now have more options for reopening dates:

[quote]Bennett did coldly replace many different people from ACL.

Damn right he did.

I coldly replaced an ENTIRE COMPANY...but that's because I was a controlling prick!

So, at this point, MORMON or WSS is going to swoop in and be the next "FIRST BACK ON BROADWAY," right?

Interestingly, on the subject of ANNIE -- Bob Fitch (the original Rooster) was interviewed recently and was quite candid about his uncredited contributions to the libretto.

Apparently, Charnin and Meehan's book was NOT working around the time of the Goodspeed production, particularly the villain subplot. Namely, they had no real motivation to be there! So Bob came up with the idea of Rooster and Lily impersonating Annie's long lost parents and pitched it to Charnin. This obviously became the major plot point.

People talk about punch-ups from Mike Nichols, but Fitch apparently contributed more than was ever credited. He said that he (with Gennaro) came up with the whole structure for 'Easy Street' after Charlie Strouse handed off the rough tune one night. Pretty interesting!

Fitch is a pretty beloved old hoofer, so I can't imagine he'd have any reason to exaggerate. He did say the mass firing of 1980 was pretty unexpected. Gary Beach wound up coming in from the road company to replace him.

How many people were fired from Annie in 1980?

Who did Bennett coldly replace in ACL?

Elizabeth Seal in London, of "Irma La Douce" fame, sacked as Cassie, but Bennett still couldn't put in McKechnie as he wanted to.

any link to that interview r527?

Here's a little more on the aptly named "Saturday Night Massacre" at ANNIE:

"Ah, yes, the notorious Saturday Night Massacre! In early January 1980 Martin suddenly decided that the show on Broadway needed some revitalization, so he got rid of almost the ENTIRE cast all at once and replaced them. Sarah Jessica Parker was replaced by Allison Smith, and almost every other role was changed as well, with the exception of Ray Thorne and Jennine Babo. A few of the ensemble people stayed too, I believe, and of course Sandy stayed, but a large bunch of cast members got the ax. Martin made this decision very suddenly and gave the cast very little warning, and many were NOT happy, including Robert Fitch, the originator of the Rooster role who had been with the show since the very beginning. I'm not sure who originated the nickname, but of course it was used to parallel the famous Watergate incident of that nickname in 1973 when President Nixon cleaned house in his staff very suddenly."

-- Jon Merrill, co-president of the International Annie Fan Club from 1983 to 1998

A few years before Chorus Line closed there was a similar house cleaning. Not sure if Bennett was involved (he may have passed by then) but some understudies were promoted to featured and featured were demoted to understudies.

There was a big house-cleaning with "Les Miz" regarding the casting antics and people put in there by Richard Jay-Alexander, I recall. Perhaps someone here has more specifics. Was he doing casting couch stuff, or just playing favorites? Apparently the show was very not up to standard when Alexander was sacked and the whole cast had to be re-auditioned with quite a few replacements. I forget what year this happened though. Was it the original Broadway company or the revival?

R534 it was the original Broadway company in the advance of, I think, the 10 anniversary around 1997.

For Phantom, there's the much less well known "Dayton 6" when Production Supervisor Peter Von Mayerhauser fired 6 brand new cast members of the US tour in Dayton after watching either their put-in rehearsal or first performance. PvM was a similar asshole on Phantom as Richard Jay-Alexander was on Les Miz, and was responsible for a lot of mediocre casting in the 90s on Phantom.

Bennett also dropped Barbara Luna, who was going to replace Priscilla Lopez. After a couple of performances he let her go because he thought she was marking in rehearsal and then realized that was all she had.

He also came in to LA and fired five or six understudies who had been hired by stage management over the previous six months.

Fascinating stuff. Did Phantom ever have a cast exodus?

[quote] Bennett did coldly replace many different people from ACL.

Yes, absolutely. And sometimes for ridiculous reasons. But not because someone had AIDS.

RJA had let his power go to his head and had become more insufferable than r411. (In fact I wouldn't be surprised if r411 actually [bold]was[/bold] RJA.) He had come to behave as the de facto producer of the entire show and treated everyone with his capricious opinion and decision-making in all areas of the show's day-to-day, informed by very limited intelligence. His progress from valet in Amadeus to proxy for Cameron Mackintosh was always suspicious.

[quote]There was a big house-cleaning with "Les Miz" regarding the casting antics and people put in there by Richard Jay-Alexander, I recall. Perhaps someone here has more specifics.

I recall hearing some details back then (was it 1997?) as it was a huge scandal. The long-termers in the cast were outraged, "We've got a mortgage to pay! We've got kids in school! We've built our lives around this show!" while the producers responded, "You got fat. You got old. You got lazy and your voice and performance suck." Or words to that effect.

I saw it with the new cast freshly re-opened. I'm not a huge LES MIZ fan, but they looked and sounded terrific.

I sympathize with performers, but I don't think anyone earns their job "for life." It's up to them to keep performances fresh.

So a young SJP was a victim of the Saturday Night Massacre at ANNIE.

If only real bullets had been involved, alas.

and r540 didn't that housecleaning include RJA getting booted? He wielded all that power and casting, he was responsible for show declining in quality too, no?

r542 I saw SJP and Alice Ghostley. Do you know if they were both booted?

My memory is Luna was going in as Cassie, r536, but let go. She was going in as Morales?

[quote]Didn't that housecleaning include RJA getting booted? He wielded all that power and casting, he was responsible for show declining in quality too, no?

Yup.

R542, they shoot horses, don't they?

Apparently not.

Wasn't there a whole boy on boy situation involved in RJA getting the boot?

R546: It cost her an endorsement deal…

with Elmer's Glue!

Ghostly had left Annie by then. I believe Dolores Wilson replaced her then was part of the layoff.

I was a Chorus Line junkie and saw the show more than 50 times during the run. There’s an actor named Ron Kurowski who played Bobby first in the International company then landed on broadway where he played the part for years up until closing. He was remarkable. Never saw him walk through a performance. Managed to get laughs from tiny, very quiet audiences. He’s proof that an actor can play the same role for a long period of time and never get stale. But, let’s face it, sometimes actors do get lazy.

Luna was Morales. Never Cassie.

Speaking of Martin Charnin, there is also a documentary that chronicles his beastly behavior when they held that big contest to find a girl to play ANNIE in the Broadway revival, but then.....well, I didn't remember all the details, but according to Wikipedia, "In 1996, at age 12, [Joanna] Pacitti was chosen to star in the 20th anniversary revival of the musical Annie after entering a contest sponsored by the department store Macy's. Pacitti starred in 106 performances with the national tour. Shortly before the show was to open on Broadway, she was terminated by the show's producers. After successfully appealing the initial rejection of her case, Pacitti eventually settled out of court on undisclosed terms."

Yeah, Charnin was a real POS when he wanted to be, and apparently, he wanted to be quite often.

That certainly makes more sense, r551. I just remember reading an interview at the time in Dramalogue and I had thought she was going in as Cassie which surprised me. I obviously missed the Morales part.

If I remember correctly Pacitti was fired via fax. The whole situation was handled badly and Andrea McArdle spoke out on Pacitti’s behalf and skipped seeing the show. I always respected her for that.

This Dolores Wilson, r549?

I've heard from others that Peter Von Mayerhauser was a real asshole at PHANTOM. Allegedly, he was one of the forces behind terminating George Lee Andrews longterm contract (among others).

Now, one could argue that NO ONE should be in a show that long, but having seen Andrews in Phantom shortly before he was canned, he was absolutely firing on all cylinders. You could tell he was still very invested in the show and the role (which is saying something, as the part isn't anything to write home about) My sense from those at PHANTOM was that he (and other longtermers like Howard McGillin) were the company 'boosters' who really set a high standard and good example for the newbies.

I believe Mayerhauser left the production around 2012/2013 IIRC? It's a shame that Cam Mac has been obsessed casting the Phantom as this hot young sex stick. He needs to be the ghostly father figure for all the textures of that gothic romance for work. The 'older' Phantoms of the 90s and early 00s were far more effective than the Ben Crawfords and Peter Jobacks. He needs to be hugely romantic and hugely creepy all at once. Crawford nailed it, and so did Davis Gaines and McGillin.

[quote]If I remember correctly Pacitti was fired via fax.

At least it wasn't on a Post-It.

The Les Miz shakeup in 1997 doesn't surprise me. I remember reading a book called "Making it on Broadway" years ago and it had a ton of former Les Miz cast members spilling about their time in it. It sounded like a bit of a shitshow.

They basically all admitted that within a month or two of joining the show (either on Broadway or on tour) everyone was immediately bored and started fucking around on stage. Hiding toys and candy on the barricade, pulling dildos out from under their costumes. It was depressing to read. Many of the people who admitted to doing this stuff were clearly in the show post-'97 too. They justified the behavior saying that from the audience's perspective, it kept the show 'fresh' and 'alive'. But the professional conduct is still pretty reprehensible.

There were similar stories in the book of disenchanted, bored cast members in the '94 'Grease' revival too. I know it's a 'job' but man, it feels like someone people didn't realize what they were signing up for.

Do tell about what went on at Grease!

Brooke Shields, Ricky Paull Goldin from soaps, and Rosie O'Donnell, with Billy Porter. Sounds Golden Age!

You can download the Kindle version of it below -- it's a fun, fast read. Slightly depressing but some great stories (on Bway and the road) from a lot of familiar faces. Some of the ones who admitted to fucking around haven't worked SINCE the book was published, so take that as you will.

The only specific GREASE! bit I recall about the Weisslers. Apparently, during final previews, they had incorrectly measured cast member heights for a scenic drop they were supposed to poke their heads thru. Rather than getting a new drop, or even creating some wooden stairs, the Weisslers got the stagehands to round up a bunch of phonebooks. And that's what they stood on as they sang thru the drop on opening night! Though I think they might have eventually sprung for some apple boxes...

But where did they have the opening night party?

I have a friend who was in the company of the most recent revival of Les Mis on Broadway who told me the cast was super unprofessional, fucked around all the time onstage, and there wasn't a week after the opening where at least five actors didn't call in. The swings worked more than some of the ensemble players (and one principal).

Streaming Musicals. Have you heard of any of these?

[quote]I have a friend who was in the company of the most recent revival of Les Mis on Broadway who told me the cast was super unprofessional, fucked around all the time onstage, and there wasn't a week after the opening where at least five actors didn't call in. The swings worked more than some of the ensemble players (and one principal).

I wonder if the same thing happens on the West End?

Rosie O'Donnell also said when she joined Fiddler on the Roof that the chorus was unprofessional and fooling around.

[quote]I wonder if the same thing happens on the West End?

Only when Patti LuPone gets bored and misses her entrance.

I’m getting the sense that the song One Day More is an anthem and curse of the tedium to the cast of Les Miz and causes mayhem to occur to combat boredom.

I saw the road company of Song and Dance. The dancers spent the entire second act messing around and trying to crack each other up. The men all wore fake mustaches and thought they were hilarious. Maybe they didn’t care because the audience was extremely small but it was kind of shocking and we were all aware of how unprofessional they were.

I saw an interview this morning with Robbie Fairchild. He looked somewhat emaciated but said the flower business is going well. Now I'm tempted to order something just to see if he shows up at my door.

[quote] Rosie O'Donnell also said when she joined Fiddler on the Roof that the chorus was unprofessional and fooling around.

She should know. Her behavior in Grease was appalling. She was clearly bored after the opening and pretty much marked her way through all the musical numbers with an "I can't be bothered" expression on her face.

She talked about that, r574. She'd be bored and during Hand Jive she'd mouth "Meet me at Joe Allen's after the show" to a friend in the audience.

I can't remember if I told this story on here (but it fits with the current topic). When I was in high school, I went to see a play at the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theater in Jupiter called Wrestlers. It was written by Bill C. Davis (of Mass Appeal fame) and I don't believe it ever made its way to NYC. It starred Judd Nelson, Sarah Jessica Parker and Dan Monahan from Porky's.

I saw a Saturday matinee and all three were totally acting up, trying to make each other laugh, ad libbing, and at one point, one of them got on the bed and decided to jump up and down while performing the lines (I think SJP's character was supposed to be jumping, but Nelson decided to join her and he wasn't supposed to). Nelson broke the bed and that was the end of that. They completely lost it and they had to stop. And the rest of the show was just a shambles. It was the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen on the stage until Lavarious Slaughter.

Davis died a few months ago.

I loved doing theater in high school and college but it was always just 1 weekend for high school shows and 2 for the college shows. After college I did one quasi professional show (a tiny half step above community theater...maybe) in Minneapolis and it was a 3 week run and I was so freaking bored by the third weekend I wanted to scream. It soured me on wanting to pursue acting because I couldn't imagine doing actual long runs for a living.

A four week run sounds hellish but doing the same show for 3 months or a year? That would be a slow insidious torture.

[quote]In September 1983, Yul Brynner logged his 4,000th performance in The King and I. In January 1985, the tour reached New York for a farewell Broadway run. The Broadway production of The King and I ran from January 7 to June 30 of that year, with Mary Beth Peil as Anna. Brynner's last performance, a few months before his death, marked the 4,625th time he had played the role of the King.

People today are lazy and ungrateful. If you really love something, it's not work and you can't get enough.

R578 That is part of the craft.

Yeah, R578, sounds like you just aren't an actor.

Yul famously said he would do 9 performances a week if he could. Of course he also famously cut Puzzlement from some performances.

R582 It's not like he really SANG that song.... but I guess it took a lot of his energy.

RJA was notorious for privately rehearsing the various actors playing Marius, standing in for Eponine himself so that the actors had to hold him in their arms. Everyone knew what was going on and everyone was creeped out.

Star contracts were routinely for 2 years, if the show ran that long but Ethel's and Mary's often did.

LOL....well, I'm NOT an actor....partly because of that, so what's your dumb point R581 ?

And, many actors hate long runs, at least from a creative stand point. The creation part happens during rehearsals; after that it's just rote, though there is enjoyment to be had by the unique experience of each performance with a different audience. But, even that gets old after the 75th time you've said the same damn lines.

Don't believe me; go read any number of famous actor memoirs or watch interviews with them.

I don't think Yul Brynner thought he was making fabulous art every time he stepped on stage as the King but he WAS making a living for 40 years, bless his heart.

It's hard to get completely accurate numbers from a hundred years ago, but Otis Skinner is estimated to have played Hajj in the original non-musical Kismet over 20,000 times. Constant road tours, at least 5 Broadway revivals and both a silent and talkie. {The talkie is a famous lost film, an extravagant production shot on large format film. Skinner at that point was over 70.) He remained an audience favorite in the role until he finally retired. Cornelia Otis Skinner was his daughter.

I guess that's the thing: some actors just aren't stage actors.

We're nearing the end of this thread ... come Into the Light ...

With a few posts left, and to come full circle, did we all see the second Dear Evan Hansen trailer? Things didn't get much better.

[quote]RJA was notorious for privately rehearsing the various actors playing Marius, standing in for Eponine himself so that the actors had to hold him in their arms. Everyone knew what was going on and everyone was creeped out.

About 10 or 15 years ago, RJA latched onto a hot young wannabe actor I knew, and one day, that actor told me he and RJA were getting together privately to, ummm, work on an audition for some show that RJA was directing. The actor referred to these sessions as "my privates," I assume he was using RJA's phrase for these little get-togethers.

[quote] LOL....well, I'm NOT an actor....partly because of that, so what's your dumb point [R581] ?

I could ask you the same thing. You're NOT an actor so who gives a fuck if you didn't like the three week run (pussy).

Oslo has screened. Anyone catch it? Didn't realise Sher directed it.

I wasn't interested in watching it until I saw that Jeff Wilbusch was playing the Michael Aronov role. Wilbusch is an interesting actor and I'm curious to see more from him.

People are posting stories about bored actors pulling these stunts decades ago, and yet R579 still managed to whine about "people today".

Well, if no one else will . . .

Bajour!

Spiderman: Turn Off This Thread!

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